Podcast Season 3, Episode 2 Transcript
Babette Faehmel, Host: 00:11
Welcome to Many Voices, One Call, SUNY Schenectady’s diversity, equity, inclusion
and social justice podcast. My name is Babette Faehmel, and I'm your host. I teach
history at the college, and I have some guests with me today—on a very hot day in
September—and we are going to talk about climate. With me: Vicky Michela, who is with
Progressive Schenectady, and she is on the steering committee for climate. She is
joining us from the phone. I have Michael Richardson with me, who is a local climate
advocate, and also Ryan Szepek, who is a senator in the Student Government Association
and who is in the Math, Science, Technology and Health department. I have Abhi Sharma,
who is also in the science, in the Science Department—Math, Science and Technology—and
Lorena Harris, the Director of CSTEP. So, first of all, welcome all of you and thank
you for coming to us. Well, we are a diversity, equity and inclusion podcast, and
you are all like people who care a lot about climate. So, let's talk about climate
and what climate has to do with equity and social justice. Who wants to start?
Michael Richardson, Guest: 01:31
Well, when we talk about the climate situation, the words we want to use are climate
crisis, climate disruption—some people used to call it climate change. What does this
all mean? And it comes down that, as we understand, our climate is changing. Climate
is defined as the average of weather, and I think every one of the people that are
listening in today know that the weather is not what it used to be when they were
younger or even last year. The climate is in disruption. It affects all of us in different
ways. It's easy to understand that there are people who are capable of living with
climate change because of certain privileges they have with their transportation,
with their housing, with their occupations, and there's others where it is life-threatening—and
this is what we mean when we talk about climate equity and climate justice.
Vicky Michela, Guest: 02:32
And I'll just add here—this is Vicky—that you know many people who are marginalized
might live in a city where the heat is much worse because of all of the concrete and
the asphalt. They may not be able to afford air conditioning. Workers—you know, construction,
landscapers, kitchen workers, um, people who work in warehouses, you know, farm workers…these
are all people that cannot—that are going to really suffer the most because they can't
adapt because of the nature of their work.
Babette Faehmel: 03:08
So, you are concerned about the disparate impact of climate change or the climate
crisis on all these different populations. Ryan, what brings you to the topic? You
are a senator for SGA and you are a student. What got you first interested?
Ryan Szepek, Guest: 03:28
I've been interested in the climate justice stuff for many years now…
Babette Faehmel: 03:31
For many years.
Ryan Szepek: 03:33
…but I didn't get significantly into it until March of 2022.
Babette Faehmel: 03:39
Why was that? Wha—why was that?
Ryan Szepek: 03:42
I first got into it through SGA at SUNY Schenectady.
Babette Faehmel: 03:44
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Szepek: 03:45
That was the first step, and then I joined other climate justice-related organizations
that are even international, where I'm connected with people from around the world.
Babette Faehmel: 04:00
Okay...okay. So, are there any particular issues that you have been trying to tackle?
Ryan Szepek: 04:07
There are so many. We're focused on inequalities…
Babette Faehmel: 04:11
Yeah.
Ryan Szepek: 04:13
…relating the climate crisis.
Babette Faehmel: 04:13
Yeah.
Ryan Szepek: 04:14
Transition to a regenerative socialist economy.
Babette Faehmel: 04:19
Oh, really. (Intonation changes to reflect surprise and curiosity.) Okay. What does
that have to do with climate?
Ryan Szepek: 04:24
The capitalist and imperialist system is the leading cause of the climate crisis.
Babette Faehmel: 04:33
Wow! Okay, okay…can you speak a little more about that?
Ryan Szepek: 04:35
Based on the statistics I've learned 100 companies contribute to 71% of the world's
emissions…
Babette Faehmel: 04:43
Okay.
Ryan Szepek: 04:44
…100 corporations.
Babette Faehmel: 04:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Did—Abhi, did you—? Were you aware of that?
Abhi Sharma: 04:52
No, I was not.
Babette Faehmel: 04:53
Yeah, okay, no, I have to—I mean, I thought it would probably be very concentrated
in terms of the impact, which is also why it is an equity issue right? Because it's
not—it's about the unfairness of the impact, as opposed to, like, the small group
of basically polluters. (States tentatively, almost as if questioning.)
Ryan Szepek: 05:15
Yeah…
Babette Faehmel: 05:16
Okay.
Ryan Szepek: 05:17
…and even the U.S. military is the largest institutional polluter.
Babette Faehmel: 05:21
Because of all the jets? And…
Ryan Szepek: 05:23
Yes.
Babette Faehmel: 05:24
Okay, okay…wow.
Ryan Szepek: 05:26
…and a lot of the technology they use, too.
Babette Faehmel: 05:29
Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm sure we will come back to that. Abhi, what did y—bring you to
the topic? You are obviously a science student, and you are a biologist, correct?
Abhi Sharma: 05:41
Yes, so I study biology at the school and I am—my profession in the future is going
to be geared towards helping people.
[05:51]
So, when it comes to helping people, we can do that from all different aspects, not
just from the medical field. So, for me it's more of, like: yes, equity is a really
big issue when it comes to climate control, climate change, climate issues—but everyone
is affected. Despite the fact that you may have the luxuries of an air conditioner
or those vehicles for transportation as mentioned previously, you still have to go
outside and feel the change.
[06:19]
And because you can feel that you may be able to have that perspective on what about
that person that's not, uh, you know, being able to afford these luxuries, and they
have to work outside, as previously mentioned—as a construction worker and things
of that nature.
Babette Faehmel: 06:36
Yeah, yeah. So, it’s your…Basically, your goal is to help people cope with climate
change issues more, or is—? Did I misunderstand that?
Abhi Sharma: 06:45
In terms of my studies…
Babette Faehmel: 06:47
Yeah.
Abhi Sharma: 06:48
I'm going towards the medical field (Babette acknowledges), so more of curing.
Babette Faehmel: 06:51
Okay, okay.
Abhi Sharma: 06:53
I have a bachelor's in Public Health, which is more of preventative measures. Yeah,
so while I was pursuing that degree, I had come across an environmental course. In
that course, I was able to touch upon a lot of the statistics that have to do with
‘Okay, we want to make a change when it comes to pollution, when it comes to climate
change, and how to combat these issues’—but making that change will also cost a lot
of money. So now it brings up the question of funding and things of those nature.
Babette Faehmel: 07:20
And again, the question of equity who pays for those like society-wide costs, right?
Lorena Harris, as the Director of CSTEP, what brings you to the topic?
Dr. Lorena Harris, Guest: 07:34
In general, globally, it’s an issue. Yes, we know it. We've seen it. Maybe the older
you get, the more drastic you feel the differences with the weather and the changes
of the weather. But from our community point of view and together with other faculty,
like Dr. Simons in the school, we've been working on the Vale Park Research Project
and we've seen so many abrupt changes happening, from the evaporation of the Pond
of Tranquility and Schenectad* area in the Vale Park to fallen trees due to—maybe
perhaps because this is all a science experiment ongoing—so we are not…
[08:09]
…you know, data must show—. But there is a lot of an invasive species that is being
reported in the park—a worm—that has caused terrible effects in other states like
Wisconsin with the maple trees devastation.
[08:28]
So, well, at that point over there, you know, if you touch the syrup and the maple
syrup of the pancakes in the morning, people get really upset. So, we here started
to look into it and we found an overpopulation of these worms and then, not even two
years after, all these trees are falling. And so, it's an environmental issue, yes?
Probably we don't know exactly what is causing it, but we see increase in a particular
organism that is also, um, maybe affected by the missing water, you know, or the high
temperatures, or it's—. It's all connected in my opinion. So that's why I feel like,
because it's all connected in my opinion. So that's why I feel like, because it's
all connected, it's not one factor that affects all. It's probably an issue of all,
of all in general, and not just—.
Babette Faehmel: 09:17
I mean, yeah, it's an ecosystem, and we're all part of it. Michael.
Micheal Richardson: 09:18
Well, Babette, it's so right-on that you start this dialogue by talking about climate
justice and environmental justice—because that is the core, I think, of the struggle
that we're dealing with. We often talk about climate change and climate disruption
in the terms of prevention, mitigation, and adaptation. Many of us would argue, now
that the conversation around prevention is behind us, that we're reaching or have
reached these tipping points that we can talk about later. So, we need to think more
about the mitigation and the adaptation. Now, mitigation is what can we do to prevent
further warming of the planet, but on the adaptation side this is to the climate justice.
[10:04]
Between 2010 and 2017, I was involved as a founder and director of an agroecology
program in Nicaragua, and the purpose of us being there was about the adaptation.
We were working very directly, uh, with small-scale growers on how they could adapt
to feeding their families. These are growers that are not living in an economy. When
we talk about two dollars a day—they were zero dollars a day. They just weren't involved
in the economy, so their very subsistence day-to-day had to deal with their ability
to feed themselves—and we were witnessing a climate that had already gone to the extreme
to where it was a major challenge. So, we were there to try to adapt to the change
in climate, the changes in rainfall, the changes in temperature, and when you start
to see that happening in the Global South... it really wakes you up. It's not a matter
of: ‘gee that was a really bad storm we had last week’ or ‘gee, all that water that
came down,’ or ‘isn't it really hot this summer?’ It's beyond that.
[11:11]
And we start to see what's going on with adaptation and the extremity of it. Vicky
just spoke at her beginning about the environmental injustice in the inner city due
to the inability to adapt to the extreme temperatures. This is only a hint at what's
coming at us.
Babette Faehmel: 11:31
And by the city, you mean New York City or Schenectady downtown or Schenectady city?
Micheal Richardson: 11:37
You could use both as examples.
Babette Faehmel: 11:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Micheal Richardson: 11:39
I think we look at the more concrete, the more intense this gets. But Schenectady
is not immune from this. No.
Babette Faehmel: 11:42
No, absolutely. So, as you were already mentioning, the larger implications and the
facts that globally speaking. If, if they, if there's like—. Obviously, we all feel
that it's getting hotter or summers are getting hotter, but those are also oftentimes
kind of like subjective impressions, like what is a hot summer for me is not a hot
summer for my friend. But what are we dealing with? Because I was just earlier—Lorena
and I were talking on the phone, and we were talking about polar bears, right? And
back in the days, the polar bears seemed to be, like, a big focus of folks who are,
early on, concerned about climate change. But we have reached a point where it's way
more than polar bears. It seems to be really affecting almost everyone and much more
rapidly than we had thought would happen. What does—what does the data say?
Micheal Richardson: 12:42
Well, I just want to start—Let others talk about the data—but uh, there's a saying
out there that, um, okay, on record, this globally was the hottest summer ever. Think
of it this way: this is the coolest summer you're going to experience for the rest
of your life.
Babette Faehmel: 13:00
Oh my god! (exasperated chuckle)
Micheal Richardson: 13:02
But Vicky, you have some numbers on these statistics? Yes?
Vicky Michela: 13:05
Well, the last nine years are the hottest recorded temperatures globally, and this
year, like you said, has been the hottest.
[13:19]
And then there are parts of the planet that are, you know, where temperatures are
rising more quickly—like in the Arctic—and that will lead to, of course, the melting
of the glaciers and the sea level rise, which impacts all coastal communities. Everything
is so connected. Some places will see heat rise more rapidly, others will see sea
level rise more rapidly, but we are all in this together. And I feel like it's a huge
problem for the world, but it's not a situation where we just say we throw up our
hands because it's too big, because every fraction of a degree that we can mitigate
will impact all of us. It will make, you know, there's a difference between 1.5 degrees
Celsius or 2.7, which is the goal, to not go above that. There's a difference between
that and 2 degrees Celsius and 3 degrees Celsius. So, any amount that we can, you
know, mitigate is incredibly important.
Micheal Richardson: 14:21
Vicky and I had a conversation just yesterday about this—the numbers 1.5, 2.7—and
there's a numbing effect that comes on with this because we want to have a number
or an average or something that we can hold on to, that we can have a conversation
at our Thanksgiving dinner about all this stuff, right? So, you think 1.5 degrees
Celsius, 2.7 degrees Fahrenheit, as being the tipping point of above the industrial
average of the temperature of the planet, you go like: “Well, big deal. I actually
like it when it's 84 degrees opposed to 80 degrees. What's 2.7 degrees?”
[14:28]
You lose...You scientists here, you understand this. I'm going to use an analogy that's
not the best analogy, but it works. Your body temperature—98.6 on average. If it goes
up 2.7 degrees, you're in the hospital. Our planet has a temperature. That temperature
cannot go up 2.7 degrees without severe consequences. You think it's only, “oh, it's
warm today.” But for the planet to go up 2.7 degrees completely dis—you scientists
can speak to this—it disrupts everything.
Babette Faehmel: 15:36
So, you already mentioned that it can look like a daunting, overwhelming problem,
and when people are faced with a daunting, overwhelming problem, it's probably very
likely that they feel helpless, right? What are we doing to mitigate—to alleviate
the problem? How, how are we doing—what is actually concretely being done?
Micheal Richardson: 16:00
Well, why don't we take a look at a couple of the avenues that we have to us? Ryan
spoke earlier about corporations and finance. I have three aspects where I'm engaged.
One of them is in climate finance. I am the facilitator for Third Act Upstate New
York. I'm also the convener of Rivers & Mountains GreenFaith. Both of these organizations
are exclusively focused on climate finance, and this is—how can we say?—stop the money
pipeline.
[16:33]
So right now, we as consumers have our demands, but we've also been supplied with
an economy and infrastructure and industry that needs to transition from fossil fuels
to renewables at breakneck speed. As Secretary General Guterres says, ‘everything,
everywhere, all at once.’ He uses the words immediate. (laughs) He means immediate
and so what can we do, as Ryan pointed out, to change the global eco—the global (repeats
emphatically)—economy in such a way that we get the rapid transition away from putting
more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and transitioning over to renewables? This
is no small task but, as Vicky says, it can be done. Put the man on the moon. We can
do this. (Babette chuckles.)
Vicky Michela: 17:23
I'll just...Can I just interject?
Babette Faehmel: 17:26
Of course—sure Vicky, go ahead.
Vicky Michela: 17:23
Is that okay?
Babette Faehmel: 17:26
Yes.
Vicky Michela: 17:29
So, I'll just add that, on a personal level, I mean can we do—we can all do things
right. I mean, one thing that doesn't get talked about a lot is our—the food that
we eat. I mean the production of meat, particularly of, you know, cows and pigs, cause
an enormous amount of greenhouse gases in terms of the—how the methane that's produced
and the feed that has to go to feed these animals. It's very inefficient. So just
cutting back on your meat consumption is a very important thing. And, of course, the
way that we—the way we get to places. You know...taking public transportation, riding
your bicycle, walking, avoiding getting in your car. You know, the way that you heat
your home. You know, heat pumps have become more popular, and geothermal—.
[18:26]
And then, of course, there are the things that we can do to push our—our electeds*—our
elected officials. We need to make our voices heard on this issue, that this needs
to be a priority. Many of them may be progressive in some areas, but many things come
at them. You know there are many, many issues that they deal with, and the more they
hear from us through lobbying in Albany—we're very lucky to live very close to the
city of Albany, and there's some, there's some, you know, very important New York-based
climate legislation that we can lobby our legislators to support—and then marches
and protests and rallies. All of these things are, you know—I believe personally that
they all need to be done to make the biggest impact.
Babette Faehmel: 19:20
Vicky, I'm going to come back to that in a second. I just want to give Ryan and Abhi
a chance to talk...
Vicky Michela: 19:25
Sure.
Babette Faehmel: 19:26
...about their experiences with youth organizing and with joining protests. And for
Ryan, you were mentioning the global initiatives that you are aware of and like a
globally—like activists you are connected with? Do you want to talk a little more
about that?
Ryan Szepek: 19:42
Yeah.
Babette Faehmel: 19:43
Go ahead.
Ryan Szepek: 19:45
Like, in May of 2022, I joined a movement called Earth Uprising International, if
any of you've heard of it? You probably haven't most likely.
Babette Faehmel: 19:59
No. I have to admit. How did you hear about it?
Ryan Szepek: 20:02
Through Instagram.
Babette Faehmel: 20:03
Oh, okay! (chuckles)
Ryan Szepek: 20:05
...and the founder of it is a young activist who's 18 now.
Babette Faehmel: 20:10
Yeah, there are a lot of them, right? Some it's a very...
Ryan Szepek: 20:02
Like you could look her name up and she has a Wikipedia.
Babette Faehmel: 20:10
Okay, who is it?
Ryan Szepek: 20:18
Alexandria Villaseñor is her name.
Babette Faehmel: 20:10
Okay, I'm going to put that in the show notes.
Ryan Szepek: 20:24
Yeah, but she lives in California right now. She started that organization after in
November of 2018 she was trapped in the campfire in California.
Babette Faehmel: 20:35
Oh, my god...
Ryan Szepek: 20:36
Meaning like she—it was what—the asthma was the issue there.
Babette Faehmel: 20:40
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ryan Szepek: 20:42
And the air quality was so poor out there.
Babette Faehmel: 20:46
Right, right. I think that's also what people don't often think about how many, um,
like other issues related to climate and air quality could be mitigated if we start
tackling the climate issue more aggressively, right? I mean air quality—I wasn't even
aware of how many deaths globally are connected to just air quality issues.
Ryan Szepek: 21:08
It's millions.
Babette Faehmel: 21:09
Yeah, it's millions. It's pretty scary.
Ryan Szepek: 21:12
And with even...floods too.
Babette Faehmel: 21:15
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Ryan Szepek: 21:17
And heat waves—like this summer we had a very hot and wet July.
Babette Faehmel: 21:23
Mm-hmm. Mh-hmm. Mh-hmm. So you got involved in international climate justice through
social media.
Ryan Szepek: 21:30
That's how I, like, learned all about these organizations.
Babette Faehmel: 21:37
Okay, yeah, I mean that's a great thing, right? We have information at our fingertips
so easily now because of social media. Do you get the impression that there is a lot
of local support among people your age? Cause you are very—like Ryan is very young.
(Babette laughs.)
Ryan Szepek: 21:51
There is some. It all depends on the region. I feel like in countries that are more
affected, there are more people involved.
Babette Faehmel: 22:00
Oh god, yeah, yeah. Sure, sure.
Ryan Szepek: 21:56
Like in Africa, I feel like a large number of people are involved in the climate justice
movement because they're far more affected. (Babette audibly agrees) A lot of people
in privileged areas just like to keep their privilege going and don't like to take
action.
Babette Faehmel: 22:19
Yeah, and of course nobody wants to be told that they are privileged because most
people don't feel privileged, (Babette chuckles) but you are absolutely right. So,
if, if students at SCCC—SUNY Schenectady County Community College— are listening to
this right now, where would you advise they go if they want to get more involved?
Ryan Szepek: 22:45
They would— they should join the Fridays For Future group in Schenectady County, New
York.
Babette Faehmel: 22:50
Okay, that's good information.
Ryan Szepek: 22:52
Which I—I actually swag-ordered 100 t-shirts that I'll be distributing at the first
strike.
Babette Faehmel: 23:00
Oh, really? Wow, that's awesome.
Ryan Szepek: 23:01
They're trying to get it to happen on September 15th in Washington Park...
Babette Faehmel: 23:07
Yeah, yeah.
Ryan Szepek: 23:08
...in Albany. Hopefully it can happen.
Babette Faehmel: 23:09
Okay, right on cue, on September 15th, there is a march...
Ryan Szepek: 23:12
The very first one...
Babette Faehmel: 23:14
...right? Okay.
Ryan Szepek: 23:15
...but it's gonna be every Friday. This entire school year...
Babette Faehmel: 23:17
Wow.
Ryan Szepek: 23:18
...they're gonna do it. It's strike. It's not really a march.
Babette Faehmel: 23:20
It's not—oh, okay, can you say more?
Ryan Szepek: 23:23
Fridays For Future was founded by Greta Thunberg in August of 2018.
Babette Faehmel: 23:29
Yeah, very well-known youth activist.
Ryan Szepek: 23:32
Oh yeah. Cause for one month she was striking outside of the Swedish parliament demanding
action from their government and ever since that month she's been striking every Friday.
Babette Faehmel: 23:45
Okay.
Ryan Szepek: 23:46
And every March and September the world's been having a global climate strike day.
Babette Faehmel: 23:51
So, what does that mean? Like, when you say global climate strike, does that mean
that the activists, the people are, like, already engaged in activism refuse to work,
or is it larger than that?
Ryan Szepek: 24:01
It means like the events that happen on the global climate strike—like the strikes
become a lot bigger than usual.
Babette Faehmel: 24:10
Okay, okay, and it's a work stoppage?
Micheal Richardson: 24:13
These are student strikes.
Babette Faehmel: 24:14
Oh! Okay, okay. Gotcha.
Ryan Szepek: 24:15
Some for workers too, some just...probably, I'm not really sure. I'm guessing some
might use that as their time off. (Babette laughs.) Who knows? Who knows what people
do? But I've seen some pictures of some adults going—in other countries I'm talking
more about. In countries that are less privileged.
Babette Faehmel: 24:37
Yeah. Huh, interesting. There’s obviously—there are, like, plenty of places locally
even, if you want to start getting involved. Abhi, what have you— what are you aware
of in terms of activism happening around here...
Abhi Sharma: 24:52
I have...
Babette Faehmel: 24:53
...for young folks and students?
Abhi Sharma: 24:56
...sure. I know in the area which I live in, downtown Albany, there are always walks
happening there, rallies happening there, there are strikes happening—I'm seeing workers
outside. But when you see all this, you realize that we, as the people, can come together
and create change in general—regardless what we're striking for, what we we're walking
for. So, I have a lot of friends that are not directly related with their professions
or with their studies towards the environmental aspect of life. So they tell me “All
right, well, I'm studying accounting, what do you want me to do?” or where “I work
at a hotel,” or “I work at an airport, what do you want me to do about it?”
Babette Faehmel: 25:35
Right.
Abhi Sharma: 25:36
So, I try to explain to them that if you look at it at a very personal level—alright,
plant another tree. If you look at it from a global or more of like an organization
level—get involved, join at least one organization, learn the facts, see what they're
doing, see what that change being brought about is all about and see if you can get
involved with at least one organization that has to do with the environment. And similarly,
there are very similar organizations that do other things that is not the topic of
this conversation: such as helping animals, helping women, helping women that are
single, helping women are single that are—have children. They may have five children
take care of by themselves. So, similarly to that, if you get involved in the organization
that gears towards the environment, then you can learn and indirectly you may be planting
the tree. For some reason, they might pull you outside and say alright, let's go on
a walk and let's talk about this, or let's go grab a bag and pick up some garbage.
[26:38]
Similarly, in the—over this past summer I got involved with the organization—its acronyms
are B A P S. The website is BAPS.org. B as in boy. A as in apple. P as in Peter. S
as in snake. Dot org. The organization asked me to come out and volunteer over the
summer. So, we did a whole bunch of construction and things over the summer. But one
thing that I do know about that organization is they do plant trees, and they do hold
interviews to talk about these topics and inspire the youth. And you also have other
age groups of people that get inspired and they volunteer to come out and help the
community, help the, uh, the globe.
Babette Faehmel: 27:22
Mh-hmm. Mh-hmm. Wow, it's—that sounds really, like, inspiring that like all these
like local connections. Um, Vicky, I'm gonna come back to you in a second because
one thing that I'm always worried about, like especially with our students—because,
because I know our students, they—so many of them work and they are part-time students
and full-time workers and caregivers there's so little time. But what everybody can
probably still do, if they want to, would be to use their power as a consumer and
their power as a citizen or a voter, right? To—and also to call on their representatives
to get involved, right? So, Vicky, can you speak about that law that is in front of
the New York legislature, I guess? I think you mentioned a legislative proposal that
people could support. What is that all about?
Vicky Michela: 28:15
Well, the legislature and the governor signed—. They passed and the governor signed
the...it's called the Climate Act now. It was called the CLCPA—long acronym—but, um,
it's called the Climate Act and it was passed in 2019. Um, which you know...there
are many components of it and I won't go into a lot of detail, but it basically, um,
you know, it's to enable the transition to renewables for New York State—in New York
State. It's the most aggressive, boldest climate bill in the country.
Babette Faehmel: 28:50
Wow!
Vicky Michela: 28:51
Unfortunately, (Vicky laughs) there was no funding attached to it. So, it's this wonderful
bill that's been passed, but now it needs to be funded. And so, many different groups—Progressive
Schenectady...um...you know many—New York Renews is a—. I would say earlier you were
asking where to find information? New York renews is a sort of a, uh—what's the word
that I'm looking for? It's an organization that encompasses many, many other environmental
groups—over 100.
[29:26]
And they are pushing various pieces of legislation which would put New York State
in line with these—with the goals of this Climate Act that was passed in 2019. So
I would say New York Renews is a great resource to find out more about how to get
involved with that.
Babette Faehmel: 29:44
Okay, Michael
Micheal Richardson: 29:45
Well, I'm just going to take right from there. I'm on the steering committee of New
York Renews. Now, New York Renews is the force behind the New York State Climate Act—the
Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act that was passed in 2019. And, as Vicky
pointed out, it is a very much a landmark climate act nationwide. But it is the platitude.
It is the big picture. It doesn't actually do anything other than set the goals and
the guidelines. Now it's up to the state legislature, since 2019, to implement and
fund the Climate Act. There's a process that you go through. We are at that point
now where legislation needs to be passed that enacts and funds the New York State
Climate Act's component parts, various parts of it. So rather than going into great
detail of what is the climate, jobs and justice package of New York Renews—I just
want to digress a minute.
[30:46]
New York Renews is a coalition of 300 plus organizations right now, all the big names;
NYPR, GreenFaith—that I represent—several others. So, out of the 300 coalitions, there
are 21 organizations that make up the steering committee—which I'm on—but there's
all these other committees; the policy committee, the lobbying committee—on and on
and on—that anybody, any organization, any person can be involved in. It is a activist-based
organization. So, again, the policy committee is made up of not just people that are
part of organizations, but folks like Ryan and others that just want to get involved.
So, yeah, back to the point of it is—is that you can plug in.
[31:30]
I want to give—just for your listeners—an easy gateway. There is another organization
I should... I'm going to take that back. There's another group of people—it's an ad
hoc group that says we are not an organization, we are not a group. It is called Climate.
(pause) Can't. (pause) Wait. So, remember that—Climate Can't Wait. So, it's an organization
that's not an organization of local folks around here in organizations. It's a gateway.
So go online, type in Climate Can't Wait, pull up the webpage, and that's the best
access to—You talked about Fridays for Future. Another wonderful youth group in our
area is the Sunrise Movement. They have a chapter over at RPI. Wouldn't it be nice
if they had a chapter here at Schenectady College?
Babette Faehmel: 32:19
(Babette laughs.)
Ryan Szepek: 32:20
I'm actually connected with the one—The Fridays For Future chapter in Schenectady
is connected with Sunrise RPI.
Babette Faehmel: 32:28
Oh okay.
Micheal Richardson: 32:29
Shriti over there is the coordinator and a few others.
Ryan Szepek: 32:32
Kriti?
Micheal Richardson: 32:32
Yeah.
Ryan Szepek: 32:33
Oh. I know her.
Micheal Richardson: 32:34
Yeah, she's a coordinator over there, so that's a good person to a...
Ryan Szepek: 32:38
She was at the—. I coordinate with her.
Micheal Richardson: 32:40
Yeah, good.
Ryan Szepek: 32:41
And she was at the march in Schenectady as well.
Micheal Richardson: 32:44
Yes! Yes.
Babette Faehmel: 32:45
Oh, wow!
Micheal Richardson: 32:46
Yes, she spoke... And you know, Abhi, you talked about the marches that you've seen
down in downtown Albany—another wonderful way to get involved—Rivers & Mountains GreenFaith.
We've hosted three of the marches down there, along with Third Act, where several
hundred people have shown up. We did the march on March 21st of ‘23—3-21-23—which
was stop funding fossil fuels at banks. So, again, good gateway: Climate Can't Wait.
Log on and you'll open it—let's call it a gateway— it'll show you all the connections
in this area.
Babette Faehmel: 33:23
Wow! Well, that's great information to have, absolutely. So, one more thing that I
was not aware of—to the degree to which this is apparently a real issue, especially
in regards to students and inclusion, belonging, diversity issues—is the degree of
climate anxiety. Because I'm like—I mean, I can't say that I go to class and I hear
students sit around and chat about the climate crisis or anything like that. It's
not, it's not there like as an apparent thing—but apparently, globally, the figures
are quite alarming—or even in the like, let's just say, in the United States, how
many like very young people are really feeling, like, significant degrees of anxiety?
Are you, are, um—are you more aware of these issues and how they affect youth?
Micheal Richardson: 34:16
Well, I can say that—again, they're the group that I'm—I can say that in the multi-faith
community—I come from a Buddhist tradition. There are quite a few programs out there
right now that deal with climate anxiety and depression—and try for the activists
to get them to keep on keeping on. Because, again, when you become fully aware of
how far we've gone to reach some of our approaching other tipping points—it can bum
you out and you want to throw your arms up and say ‘why does it matter?’ I go out
and evoke all these changes to get people to move their banking accounts away from
the big fossil fuel banks and then someone in India goes and builds a brand-new coal
plant or coal mine. So, like it's one step forward and ten steps back.
[35:11]
‘Why should I do it anymore?’ I might as well just go rock and roll and party and
you, and go out... on a blazing rocket—and so there are programs out there that help
us to keep on keeping on, bring it into perspective, to remind us of why we do service,
why we care about the future, why we care about the planet.
[35:34]
So, yes, I think that it is severe for the activists. I think it is critical for the
young people that are reading the newspapers and talking about it—that the future
looks not so bright.
Babette Faehmel: 35:47
Yeah, and there are crises that keep happening. But I also imagine that it's actually
worse when you don't have people to connect with. Like other, other like, Ryan and,
um, and Abhi, who are engaged in the college with groups of students who are also
interested in these issues. Because connections are so important—like social connections—and
also you experience yourself as a person who can actively do something, even if it's
just like—I don't know—like a phone banking kind of thing. You're calling your representative
and you're asking them what they're actually doing to support this Climate Act—it's
like adequate funding or things like that. Because it gives you this sense of efficacy,
of empowerment, right? So, Ryan, would you say that this is important for people to
experience themselves in this kind of active capacity?
Ryan Szepek: 36:40
Definitely.
Babette Faehmel: 36:41
Yeah? It definitely made a big difference for you, right? Because you have been at
it for—since I've known you. This was your—your big thing.
Ryan Szepek: 36:50
One big thing.
Babette Faehmel: 36:51
One big thing? Ok... (laughs) Alright, but you're very vocal about it and very articulate
about it. Yeah, Abhi?
Abhi Sharma: 36:59 I like how Michael mentioned that we see it as... in some aspects we go forward as many steps and in other aspects someone will take us back as a whole. I like that because being an environmental activist he sees it as harming the environment and with me being a part of the medical field—and in the future, remaining a part of the medical field—we see those words as injuries. And when you relate the both—.
Babette Faehmel: 37:26
Right... (intonates agreement)
Abhi Sharma: 37:27
—when you relate the both... Would you rather have one injury or would you rather
have five? So, despite the fact that there's a persistent amount of harm going on—would
you rather prevent or decrease the amount? Or would you rather just sit back and say,
“okay, it's not my problem. Let the world take care of it...”
Babette Faehmel: 37:42
Right, right...
Micheal Richardson: 37:44
Well put.
Abhi Sharma: 37:45
.... well, we are a part of that world, so we have to contribute and do our part.
So as a whole, we come together and create that mass change.
Babette Faehmel: 37:52
Yeah, absolutely.
Micheal Richardson: 37:54
And certainly, what are the purposes of a movement? Why do we have a youth movement
or why do we have an anti-war movement? Some of it is that as individuals we can only
do incremental things that are sometimes—they don't move the needle very far. But
we understand that coming together as a group that you start to have more power, right?
[38:14]
But—also what you're talking about, Babette, right now is that emotional support,
that spiritual support that you get. You know, here—I'm the old timer in the room,
I'm 71, and so that's why I'm part of Third Act. But I go back to the war movement,
the anti-war movement, and we had... we hung out with each other and we got into the
anti-nukes. You know, we talk about climate disruption bringing us to the world. We
all—I grew up where you literally were duck and cover, climb underneath your desk
at school because that was going to protect you from some nuclear bomb that was gonna
go off in Omaha. So, as we got older, we joined movements to try to stop the nukes.
Right? And so now it's important that we have the climate movement that you join Fridays
for the Future, the Sunrise Movement—two wonderful organizations that give you power
but also give you that emotional, moral, and spiritual support that you need.
Lorena Harris: 39:15
Wow, that was super well said, I love it. Thank you for sharing that. But also—and
it's a thing that we need to do all together to increase that sense of belonging in
our community—but also, from each other perspective, individually, we want to be proactive
instead of reactive, and we want to be able to try to think what we can do all together—one
after the other—to inspire each other to be a better citizen, a global citizen in
general. Like, for example—I tried to say this in the right way—but I always tell
my students try not to be a consumer, be a producer, so produce your own—like if you're
an educator, make your own, um, crossword, your own...you know your own little story.
Babette Faehmel: 40:02
Yeah.
Lorena Harris: 40:03
Write your story, tell your story, go outside nature, because nature is what's gonna
make you feel better. But if that's the case because—that's known in the anxiety world
that if you go out there with the trees and walk in a trail, you're gonna feel a lot
better. You're breathing, you're seeing nature, you're relaxing, you're Zen with the—with
your world, and so if you do that... you feel better then, so try to plant a tree
or to talk to somebody about buying less of that thing that they really like, because
all of those buying many, many things is not going to—you know, even that little,
it's not going to make it—. It's going to make it worse at the end and it's not going
to make your life better. So be a producer instead of a consumer, and I'm quoting...
Babette Faehmel: 40:45
Totally. Absolutely...
Vicky Michela: 40:48
I'll just add one more thing—this is Vicky—and I love everything that's been said
so far, I'm just enjoying this discussion so much. Um, when I think about, you know
big, important movements in our history—the civil rights movement or the, you know
disabilities, or the women's rights movement... I don't want to feel like if I—. At
the end of my life, I don't want to feel just like a passive observer of big social
change movements. I want to be part of it, and this is an opportunity for everybody
to be part of something really historic, because this movement is growing. This climate
movement is growing, and it's something empowering, like was already said. And it's
exciting to be a part of something, where what you do, even as an individual—because
then as an individual you can get other people involved—you have more power than you
think. Um, so...
Babette Faehmel: 41:43
Well...
Vicky Michela: 41:44
...Thats...
Babette Faehmel: 41:44
Yeah...
Vicky Michela: 41:45
...That's my impetus is wanting to... not just be a passive observer (Babette laughs)
but a participant in something historic.
Babette Faehmel: 41:52
Really—really well said and I also like the emphasis on, like, taking charge, being
an empowered consumer, being a producer and, like, being part of something bigger.
Especially when Ryan was—. When Ryan and I were emailing earlier, he introduced me
to some, um, well, links and literature—or just the idea of—what you were calling
it: regenerative economics? Is that what it is?
Ryan Szepek: 42:20
Yes.
Babette Faehmel: 42:20
Right? Yeah? So just, it was a really fascinating concept for me. But it also seems
to be—some of the actions that seem necessary seem to entail that we really fundamentally
rethink our economic goals, right? And, and like, also social goals. Like what, what
are we? (Babette mirthful) You know, what are we here on this earth for? Right? We
all—we're part of this earth and in so many ways we are not driven by values of sustainability
or love or something like that.
Ryan Szepek: 42:54
I was going to say, like—constant economic growth is not sustainable.
Babette Faehmel: 42:58
Yeah...
Ryan Szepek: 42:59
Regenerative means it's socialist system where the economy stays stable. It doesn't
grow, and it doesn't go down...
Babette Faehmel: 43:07
Yeah, yeah.
Ryan Szepek: 43:08
...it stays stable.
Babette Faehmel: 43:09
Of course, a lot of people have a knee-jerk reaction—usually negative—to the word
socialism... (Babette laughs)
Ryan Szepek: 43:16
And degrowth too.
Babette Faehmel: 43:18
(Babette still laughing) ...and degrowth. And I mean, in a way, it might be logical
and understandable that a person who is trying to create the foundations—the economic
foundations, for like a, like a good living standard for their family—doesn't want
to hear scale back, consume less and these kinds of things right? But in terms of,
like, listening and hearing about the communities that are so negatively affected
by—by this climate crisis, maybe stories are more powerful than data, right? So...
Ryan Szepek: 43:51
I'm sure you've felt the climate crisis cause you've been in Germany.
Babette Faehmel: 43:56
Oh yeah! (Babette laughs)
Ryan Szepek: 43:57
They get extreme heat up there.
Babette Faehmel: 43:59
I know, and they don't have air conditioning (Babette laughs) but they build better.
Their, their houses are, are built, um to...
Ryan Szepek: 44:06
To withstand the...
Babette Faehmel: 44:08
...to a—it just doesn't get that hot within the house—inside the house because of
the way they are building, right?
Ryan Szepek: 44:14
Well, that's good.
Babette Faehmel: 44:15
Yeah, but it's gonna be a problem definitely. I mean we had, um, I was delayed in
Amsterdam, in the Netherlands, because of a hurricane warning that—it didn't turn
out to be a hurricane, but it was so severe that they shut down everything. And they
shut down everything—like no public worker was allowed to go out because it was seen
as too risky. But it's definitely getting there, absolutely.
Ryan Szepek: 44:38
And I hear about floods happening...
Babette Faehmel: 44:40
Yeah, everywhere!
Ryan Szepek: 44:41
...elsewhere too.
Babette Faehmel: 44:42
Yeah, everywhere. Everywhere. I think more and more people are becoming conscious
of that. Also, I read that New York City is under really dire straits because the
temperature is rising there more quickly than elsewhere, or even the, like, global
average, and floods are—and the water is rising and all this—it's very close to home,
all these adverse effects.
Ryan Szepek: 45:04
I feel like where—where we are standing is one of the safer places.
Babette Faehmel: 45:08
Let's hope so. Ryan Szepek: 45:09 But we’re—we’re still impacted.
Babette Faehmel: 45:11
Yeah... Plus, even if we are safe, it doesn't help us in the long run when others
are...
Ryan Szepek: 45:16
I know...
Babette Faehmel: 45:17
.... when others are...
Ryan Szepek: 45:18
...knowing that it's impacting so many other places more.
Babette Faehmel: 45:21
Yeah. Abhi.
Abhi Sharma: 45:22
Growing up one thing I always heard from professors, teachers and family members is
that humans are very dirty (Babette laughs) and—I was like, okay, like how do I make
sense of that growing up? One really interesting example that I saw to connect all
this together was during COVID. A nation like India, where, in comparison to the amount
of land, the population is greater. When you look at the population, they were put
on the lockdown and—due to COVID—and because they were put on lockdown, they had to
stay inside of their homes. And what happened was, when you look at the rivers over
there, the water—the bodies of water—the pollution that was, you know, persistent
due to the population being out and about—all of a sudden, everyone was on lockdown
and I was watching a video on YouTube—I don't know what source they had—but visually
you can observe how, prior to COVID and during COVID, there was a large change and
you can physically now see fish in the river in comparison to prior when there was
so much pollution going on that...
Babette Faehmel: 46:31
Wow.
Abhi Sharma: 46:32
...even the animals were really tough to see around. So, they had said something along
the lines that the change that was brought about within a year, year and a half, it
wasn't able to happen for 10 years, despite the community and the organizations locally
that were attempting to bring about that change. So, when you look at drastic measures,
do we really need to be put on lockdown in order to produce that sort of mass change
which is necessary for the environment?
Babette Faehmel: 47:00
Yeah...
Abhi Sharma: 47:01
And that's water, that’s—those are plants, those are animals—that children are going
to grow up and either playing in, drinking, drinking around or seeing. The water,
when you look at the samples—. We did a study last semester with Dr. Harris where
we were observing water samples from the local bodies of water and all that tied into
my understanding of ‘are humans really that dirty?’
Babette Faehmel: 47:26
(Babette laughs.) Yeah...
Ryan Szepek: 47:27
And it's actually—you shouldn't say humans. Like, a lot of people blame overpopulation
as the problem and its really over-consumerism.
Babette Faehmel: 47:36
Yeah.
Micheal Richardson: 47:38
Babette, if I could take you back. You started this conversation that led into capitalism,
socialism and whatnot. And I think we need to be careful about how we start framing—to
lay that on anybody's doorstep in that way.
[47:50]
If we look at who we are as a planet. As a planet. There are three aspects that you
have to look at with our history that has brought us to today and I think Ryan will
agree with me wholly here—one is that we have an economy, a lifestyle that's based
on extraction... excavation, extraction... colonialization... and enslavement. Now,
enslavement of people as well as economies and whatnot. You understand what I'm saying,
I'm using a bit of breadth. So, excavation...colonialization...and enslavement. And
when we talk about regenerative—whether it be regenerative agriculture, regenerative
economics—when we use that word it's to take us away from that formula that I just
laid out, that one, two, three. That what we do has a regenerative way. You don't
get that through extraction, because again, it's a closed loop system.
Babette Faehmel: 48:51
Right...
Micheal Richardson: 48:52
You do take—but you also put back in. In agroecology we do this with compost, right?
You grow composting crops—it's a closed loop system. You export very, very little
because it's a closed loop system—but you can apply that to all sorts of other things.
So again, the regenerative, I think, is really— Ryan, you're into this—that is one
of the best ways, if not the solution, to these tipping points that we're reaching.
We've got to get away from extraction...colonialization...and enslavement...and don't
be fooled, I'm a socialist. Socialism follows that three-step model—capitalism—they
all do. That's why I say we have to get away from that way of thinking and we have
to get into the regenerative way of thinking.
Babette Faehmel: 49:41
It does definitely. This emphasis on regeneration definitely takes us away from those
labels that are such signal words for people to shut down and stop listening, and
I do think that we like to—maybe like, since maybe COVID had—in that we got like a
little bit of a more positive effect and that it made us understand how much we are
part of this global system of microorganisms and climate and whatnot—and all these
forces that are beyond our control. Um, and we, our—well, I don't know, our shopping
will not get us out of the misery that we are in, right? I mean, like, no matter how
much we earn, we were all affected by Covid.
[50:27]
Well, um, I anticipated this conversation to be very depressing and I can only say
that it was not. (Michael laughs.) That the energy that our two young student guests
here brought to the topic and also the energy that Michael and Vicky, as organizers
and climate advocates, brought to this, are really refreshing. So, before we end,
you mentioned a climate march in New York City, and I know there is a bus leaving
at some point from Schenectady taking students with it? Can you say more about that?
Micheal Richardson: 51:05
Both Vicky and I are part of this ad hoc group that doesn't exist, that I mentioned
earlier (Babette and Michael laugh) that have plugged into organizing what we hope
to be three buses from the Capital District. But let me just mention the march. This
will be the first major climate march in the United States, New York City in particular,
since the pandemic. (Babette mh-mms with interest.) It's been that long. Now again,
there was a big one in New York City back in—what was it? ‘13...10 years ago...‘13,
‘14—where tens of thousands of people came. Now, I don't think it's going to be that
big, but we're looking at 40, 50, 60,000 people coming in from all over the Eastern
Seaboard and some throughout the country.
[51:48]
It was called by Secretary General Guterres. He is having an ambition summit, climate
ambition summit on the 20th of September and he said the ticket to admissions—to the
countries, including the United States—is a commitment to the pledges and so this
happens on the 20th. So, he basically asked us to come to the streets...
Babette Faehmel: 52:12
Yeah.
Micheal Richardson: 52:14
...and call on our government to...deliver. And other governments as well. So, we're
showing up on the 17th in a clarion call to live up to our pledges.
[52:28]
So, what we're doing up here in the Capital District is three buses—there's one bus
that's going to leave from Nott and Seward parking lot over by Union College on Sunday,
September 17th, at 8 o'clock in the morning.
Babette Faehmel: 52:44
Okay.
Micheal Richardson: 52:45
Vicky is coordinating that bus and there's another bus that will be leaving—another
two buses that will be leaving from Albany. The Schenectady bus is going to stop in
Kingston and pick up a few riders—but these are only three buses. There's also buses
from Binghamton and from Ithaca and from Rochester, and then I'm just talking about
New York State. They're coming in from Massachusetts and Connecticut and the Virginias
and wherever.
Babette Faehmel: 53:08
And they also take people back in the evening, right?
Micheal Richardson: 53:11
No, we're going to leave them in New York City. (Group laughter) Yes, it's there and
back.
Lorena Harris: 53:14
He's joking.
Babette Faehmel: 53:17
Well, that's good to know—
Vicky Michela: 53:18
I'll just clarify that the bus—the location is on the Union College campus itself,
but it is on the—the parking lot is on the corner of Seward Place and Nott Street.
Michael, did you want to give the website in case people want to get tickets and talk
about the ticket prices?
Micheal Richardson: 53:38
Why don't you take that?
Vicky Michela: 53:39
Okay. Well, there are three...it's a sort of a sliding scale ticket price. Tickets
are as low as $10—round trip, this is... we're talking—ten dollars, twenty five dollars
or forty dollars, depending on ability to pay. Um, and you should talk about the website,
because you'll say it the right way. (Vicky chuckles.)
Babette Faehmel: 54:04
Well, the website will be in the show notes as well. But if you can...
Vicky Michela: 54:07 Okay.
Babette Faehmel: 54:08
...if you can say it that will be fantastic.
Micheal Richardson: 54:10
Okay, it's Capital...Area...Climate...Network...Is it dot org? I think it's dot org.
Vicky Michela: 54:19
I think it's dot org.
Babette Faehmel: 54:21
All right.
Micheal Richardson: 54:22
Try dot com if it doesn't work.
Babette Faehmel: 54:24
Yes, Lorena?
Lorena Harris: 54:23
And also, you can stop by the CSTEP Center where we have the flyer posted inside,
outside and in my office—if you want to see it or take a picture of it.
Babette Faehmel: 54:33
Good to know.
Micheal Richardson: 54:34
There’s a QR code, right?
Lorena Harris: 54:35
Correct.
Babette Faehmel: 54:36
Fantastic, all right. Well, once again, a great conversation. Thank you so much Vicky
Michaela and Michael Richardson, Ryan Szepek, Abhi Sharma and Lorena Harris. Have
a great day.
Micheal Richardson: 54:49
Thank you.
Vicky Michela: 54:49
Thank you.
Lorena Harris: 54:50
Thank you for having us.
Babette Faehmel: 54:53
Many Voices, One Call wouldn't be possible without the help and support from SUNY
Schenectady School of Music. A special thanks go to Stan Isaacson, Rowan Green and
Jean-Pierre Williams-Burby for help with recording and editing of this episode—to
Heather Meany and Karen Tansky for help in promoting it—and to Jessica McHugh-Green
for creating and maintaining the podcast website. Further thanks go to SUNY Schenectady
Foundation for financial support, the REACH Initiative leadership team, the Student
Mentoring Program, the Student Government Association, and the Student Activities
Advisor.